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Advice needed about daugher
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| OvercomingthruHim |
Posted on 04/14/2010 08:44
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Wow, those are some powerful words Gramapat. I hope to retain that in the future.
((HUGS))
Inger
Edited by OvercomingthruHim on 04/14/2010 08:46
Fear and lies fester in darkness. The truth may wound, but it cuts clean.
God so loves YOU!!! |
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| MarySmith |
Posted on 04/24/2010 17:03
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>>BUT, if they are seeking the Lord and they are seeking wise counsel and still pursuing marriage, the BEST thing you can do is love her through it. She will one day need you. She will one day say, "wow...I understand now why you were so worried" if he chooses his sin over his marriage. <<<
I have to be honest and say I don't understand.
If a person were already married to one who is addicted to porn then the advice would be -- help him through it; pray; get counseling; set boundaries; and all the other great advice I have read on this forum. Wonderful advice.
But if one is considering marriage to one addicted to porn for 20 years and the guy's only accountability system in place is that "the Holy Spirit will cure me" then I would think your advice would be -- do everything in your power to keep your daughter from marrying this guy (notice I said in your power).
Please help me understand.
Edited by MarySmith on 04/26/2010 06:20 |
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| OvercomingthruHim |
Posted on 04/24/2010 21:18
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I believe our words were based off of this in your last post:
I have come to the conclusion that my daughter must see for herself what he is. No lecturing from me will work. It is in the hands of God
I took that to mean that you had done everything 'in your power'. We are in agreement that there is not much more you can do outside of what you have done. She might be under the impression that with enough love she can help change him and more. To fight against that makes a person buckle in and try harder to prove their path is correct rather than focusing on the realities set before them. This is where I was coming from.
If we were talking with your daughter then our words would sound very different. I think you have a good grip on the situation but none of us are able to make people do what we say.
((HUGS)) and 
Inger
Edited by OvercomingthruHim on 04/24/2010 21:28
Fear and lies fester in darkness. The truth may wound, but it cuts clean.
God so loves YOU!!! |
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| hopeful |
Posted on 04/25/2010 09:39
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Yes...that is what I was referring to. You have gone above and beyond to reach her. You have had her read information, books, posts, you have talked, prayed, counseled her through... Right? At some point, you cannot stop her from marrying him. Right? Any of us would do everything you are doing...it is wise parenting.
I don't know them. I don't know if they are seeking wise counsel and praying through it. I may have confused your post with someone else I know who is going through something similar...I HOPE they are seeking wise counsel and that he is getting help.
The biggest thing I am encouraging YOU to do is retain your relationship with your daughter because this is her choice. The hardest thing that any parent, myself included, has to realize is that we cannot stop our children from making poor choices. But we can love them through those choices and help them through it...even helping them through the mess they will one day have to clean up. Your situation isn't the only one I know of regarding parents disapproving of their child's choice for someone to marry...but at 27, she is an adult, no matter how naive she may or may not be. I don't say any of that to be harsh, but to encourage and plead with you to keep your relationship with her in a place that you are a safe haven for her.
Any of us who have loved a man enslaved see all of the WONDERFUL things about them. Love can blind...and I pray that your daughter sees the truth, but don't allow her to be so reacting from your disapproval that she doesn't see him for what he is. I have seen that a time or two. She NEEDS to know you love her. Again, I am not privy to know anything more than what you've shared...as a mom, I ache for the situation you are in. But as a wife of a man who has struggled, I also ache. I needed support from those around me when I realized the truth. I needed people in my life that would seek the face of God with me. My situation is different because I didn't know...but I implore you to make sure she knows your love is unconditional and that no matter what you will still love her...
I hope that makes a little more sense...
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18NIV |
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| hopeful |
Posted on 04/25/2010 15:05
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I've been thinking and praying and just re-read the thread to make sure I am understanding everything correctly. I needed to go earlier, but wanted to return and just say this...
I think from what I have read, you are already doing anything and everything 'in your power' to stop this. You have discouraged this from the beginning. (And please correct me if I am wrong.) She has read everything and is now believing that she can walk him through this.
I want to say that none of us would be here if we believed there was 'no hope' for these precious men in our lives. None of us would encourage any woman to marry a man who struggles in this area and we've discouraged many and we have encouraged many to reach out to the Lord and wait for Him and the man He has for them. Some have taken our advice and some have married, whether it be after some serious counseling or not.
Given the assumption that you are already doing everything in your power, what would you like the end result to be...if she still chooses to marry him? Are you praying for this young man's freedom along with your daughter or are you just praying they will break up? God hit me on the head a while back and it really humbled me. I used to say, "once a cheater, always a cheater..." or "men never change..." And God really convicted me that none of us are beyond Him and His restoration. God can still restore and heal this young man.
That being said, he should absolutely be actively involved in a group, getting counseling, etc...but I don't know any man who would want his in-laws privy to all of this. It is a humiliating addiction and while he has shared a lot with you, are you sure you know everything?
Please understand that I am playing the other side to help you consider all sides, not to tell you that I'm 'on their side...' It is a 'gift' that annoys many, I think 
I am praying for your daughter and for all of you...please keep us posted...we really do care! 
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18NIV |
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| MarySmith |
Posted on 04/26/2010 06:25
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I'm keeping this letter in the same thread as it's really the same subject.
I don't know why the Lord is taking us through this right now, but I'm sure there is a reason (Romans 8:28).
We (my husband and I) are coming to you with another question about a different daughter (age 26). A young man has recently (last week) told us of his interest in our youngest daughter. He seems honest, forthcoming, hardworking, answers all questions, and behaves honorably and respectfully toward us. We've begun to pick up on the hints of phoniness in people, but there does not appear to be the hint of phoniness about him. However, seven years ago while in college he was exposed to porn. He has been in Christian leadership in several ministries over the years since, and this leadership is aware of his behavior and finds it acceptable that he only views porn occasionally -- at present, about once every 2 weeks. The other leaders are among his software accountability partners. Apparently, some of the other leaders also have a similar behavior pattern. He confesses that he has a bad problem, and agrees that it must be out of the picture were he to be married, nevertheless when we refer to this behavior as indulging a life-dominating sin -- we commonly use the word "addiction" for this kind of behavior -- he does not see this as an addiction. He does not minimize the problem, he just does not see it as an addiction. We tend to think that the leaven of indulgence of the leadership with which he is involved is a great impediment to his seeing the sinfulness of his sin and to pursuing purity. Obviously, if he were somehow miraculously delivered from any life-dominating sin or addiction, it would be necessary to have reliable confirmation over an extended period of time before he -- let alone we -- should be willing to accept this as the case. We would appreciate suggestions as to how to proceed with this situation.
This young man is so very much the opposite of the young man interested in my older daughter.
We haven't told our daughter of what we learned about the porn addiction (she's on a trip away from home right now), but she does know he is interested in her. I guess what is bothering me the most right now (well, maybe not the most, but a lot) is that this young man named several other young men who are his accountability partners and who also view porn -- all men we know.
How prevalent is this addiction? |
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| hopeful |
Posted on 04/26/2010 07:16
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At this point, I've heard among Christian men, 66%. I don't know what other statistics are out there. The reason it has become so prevalent is because it is no longer a man 'sneaking to the scuzzy part of town' or ordering a dirty magazine. It is there at the click of a button. Easy.
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18NIV |
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| hopeful |
Posted on 04/26/2010 08:48
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I found this site and thought it would help a little...
http://www.lighte.../stats.asp
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18NIV |
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| OvercomingthruHim |
Posted on 04/27/2010 02:37
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((HUGS)) and
My husband had bought into the worldly info that is was a marital aid and harmless. With that fuel he stood ground never realizing the degree to which our marriage had reduced. I had no trust in him at all. When that reality truly sunk in, he was speechless. It was so contrary to popular words. It truly is a battle of reality vs fantasy on so many fronts.
Inger
Edited by OvercomingthruHim on 04/27/2010 02:37
Fear and lies fester in darkness. The truth may wound, but it cuts clean.
God so loves YOU!!! |
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| eminmini |
Posted on 04/27/2010 04:31
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While it doesn't directly answer your question - I think it is difficult to get a handle on this as an addiction because even counseling and other medical professionals differ on how the classify it as an addiction. Not that that is fair or right - it's just that no one seems to agree on a definition.
"Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, he who does evil has not seen God." 3 John 1:11 |
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| HoldingFast |
Posted on 04/28/2010 15:13
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Posts: 436
Joined: 28.09.07
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Mary,
I don't know stats - Kelly has answered you on that. But in discussing it at Celebrate Recovery, etc I have also heard 75% of Christian men.
It is so pervasive. Everything in our culture now just screams sex. I mean really who needs a half naked woman to buy a burger?
It is so sad -and I don't see the pendulum swinging the other way. It is a wonder any man is not pulled into this satanic trap.
"This is what it means to be held.
How it feels when the sacred is torn from your life
And you survive.
This is what it is to be loved.
And to know that the promise was
When everything fell we’d be held. "
Held by Natalie Grant |
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| MarySmith |
Posted on 07/17/2010 16:59
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Posts: 17
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Just to update you on our situation. Daughter #1 (age 29 now) is still pursuing marriage with the young man with a 20-year addiction to porn. She still lives and works here at our house (we have several businesses we run out of our home) and says she wants to work through this with us, although it appears that she is only saying that to please us. He exhibits a textbook case of one who is faking sobriety: will not get counseling, doesn't believe in accountability -- the Holy Spirit keeps him accountable (this is also the view of his father who has a life-long addiction to porn), exhibits dishonor and disrespect to us when daughter isn't around, is a loner, is slowly alienating daughter from her church and friends and family, tells daughter she must trust him because he is miraculously cured and has no temptation to view porn, has convinced daughter she doesn't need counseling either. We see daughter as being conflicted -- her personality is divided and we now feel she is in physical danger due to some things he has done. Others see the problem also (our other kids) but they are of the opinion that we have given her the tools for figuring all these things out and she will eventually see his true character. It appears he is two people -- the person she sees and the person who wants what he wants and will get it no matter what. Here is a paragraph my husband wrote to a particular counselor we are seeking help from.
begin quote
On Saturday, we had a house full of guests – all people [young man] knows – but [young man] spent the day literally following [daughter] around and ogling her. Literally. Fourteen people in the house – friends and relatives – and as far as I am able to determine, he did not initiate a single conversation or activity with anyone else. Either someone else initiated, or [daughter] initiated and drew [young man] into the activity. Wherever [daughter] was, [young man] was. Wherever [daughter] went, [young man] followed right behind. He was largely oblivious to everything else happening in the house. She spent considerable time in the kitchen preparing food, and [young man] would slowly bump and grind his bottom against a door post in a corner largely out of view, with his hands in his pockets, as he continually stared at her with an adoring, more an ogling glare while she worked, his head turning and his eyes stalking her every move. I cannot describe the scene to do it justice. This was not platonic, but shameless and lustful behavior. I nearly ordered him to leave right there, but all he had to do was deny it and how could anyone prove what he had observed. It occurred to me that he may very well be pushing things just to get a reaction in order to justify urging [daughter] to take more radical steps with him. He seems to be in a hurry about this relationship, and I can guess that he feels he must snare [daughter] before his opportunity is lost. So this is the tightrope I am walking. I let the day go on, hoping others, particularly [daughter], would take notice. As hidden as he was, others nevertheless did notice enough of his odd behavior to make a discrete remark. This is just one incident out of many. Every visit has its incidents, and often only [my wife] alone or I alone am in a position to either witness it or to be the object of it. He ordinarily behaves very passively, but when there can be no witnesses, he can be very brazen and abrasive, particularly with my wife.
end quote
He comes to our house each weekend and stays here. Our feeling now is, because we are convinced she is in actual physical danger, we perhaps ought to forbid him to come to the house, and then leave the results up to God. But is that what Jesus would do? We desire to please God in all things -- it is what we must do always.
By the way, my name isn't Mary Smith. We are authors and publishers. Wondering if God is preparing us to write something on this issue. I don't need to tell you -- porn is a huge issue today. It almost seems trite to say it. It is much more than a "huge issue." Also, this forum has been a great help to us.
The situation with daughter #2 is quite different -- the opposite actually. Porn is still involved, but it is different. For some, it seems like porn is just the tip of the iceberg and the person ends up struggling with it his whole life. For others, it seems like it is a big sin that they get into, but God does deliver them out of it. But I don't know for sure as I'm just learning all about it.
I covet your advice and prayers.
Your friend in Christ, LB |
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| hopeful |
Posted on 07/18/2010 01:10
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Father,
I pray that You would reveal the truth of this situation to 'Mary's' daughter...open her eyes to see. Give her the courage to see this young man for what he is and not to settle. Open her eyes, ears, mind and heart for her safety and protection. Have Your way...
I also pray for this young man...I pray You would bring him to the end of himself that he may be restored...only You can change his heart.
I pray You would continue to give 'Mary' and her husband divine wisdom to know what to do in this situation.
In Jesus' name,
amen
Porn is still involved, but it is different. For some, it seems like porn is just the tip of the iceberg and the person ends up struggling with it his whole life. For others, it seems like it is a big sin that they get into, but God does deliver them out of it.
I would agree. I heard someone say recently that it isn't as much about a porn problem, or drinking problem, or eating problem...but a worship problem. These things have become idols before God...
"Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." 2 Corinthians 4:16-18NIV |
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| breakthrough4ME |
Posted on 07/21/2010 05:16
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I'm praying for your daughter. For your entire family. Undoubtedly, she is going to make her own decision when it comes to her BF. I wish I could reach out and give you a huge hug.
As her mother, the situation must look abysmal. I recently had a long conversation with my mother about the SA and the huge issues my husband deals with (or chooses not to deal with ) We are pretty open about what has gone on since 2006. She said to me "It's hard. I really don't like what he has done to you. I used to think I can't believe I have to be nice to him..."
There was a point during all of this that I was living with my parents. Initially, my DH was welcome in their home so that he could spend time with our daughters. He wasn't allowed to stay over night. Then he had a run in with my father and was no longer welcome.
Alot of things have changed since then. However, I came to understand that the support and love that my parents have shown me was highly important in my own recovery from my DH's SA. If they hadn't been there for me and my girls I'm not sure where I'd be right now. Keep praying for her. Keeping speaking truth in love to both of them. SA is a demon of huge proportions and you have to fight for your daughter's benefit. Not to mention for the legacy of your family... |
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| OvercomingthruHim |
Posted on 07/21/2010 06:19
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Amen and
Inger
Fear and lies fester in darkness. The truth may wound, but it cuts clean.
God so loves YOU!!! |
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| MarySmith |
Posted on 07/21/2010 20:14
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Posts: 17
Joined: 08.12.09
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Thank you Lord for this forum. Thank you Lord for these women. You Lord are bringing me comfort through these women. |
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| HoldingFast |
Posted on 07/23/2010 08:11
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Senior Member
Posts: 436
Joined: 28.09.07
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"Mary",
Praying. I have 3 girls and have tried to have some fairly frank discussions about this subject. As of now - my younger two think this is something 'all guys do' even though I have tried to explain otherwise. It is the pervasivness of sin in our society that this has become somehow 'acceptable'. I think they will feel differently when it comes to their husbands - hopefully.
"This is what it means to be held.
How it feels when the sacred is torn from your life
And you survive.
This is what it is to be loved.
And to know that the promise was
When everything fell we’d be held. "
Held by Natalie Grant |
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| MarySmith |
Posted on 08/11/2010 19:47
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Posts: 17
Joined: 08.12.09
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A few months ago Blessedgirl wrote "Eventually he will paint you and your husband as the "villians" and he as the "victim".
That is exactly what is happening now. He is suggesting to daughter that we are abusing her and that both she and he are the victims. Wondering why my daughter, who has never acted like this before, is showing classic symptoms of enabling and co-dependency. We have come to two conclusions -- 1. We can no longer enable him and so will not allow him in our home; 2. Daughter needs counseling and we are looking for a Biblical counselor for her (if she'll go) who can help her with this co-dependency. |
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| eminmini |
Posted on 08/12/2010 03:13
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Unclear if you are referring to younger or older daughter - but holding your family in prayer.
Because they are legally adults - it sounds like you may have a challenge getting individual counseling - but perhaps it can be broached by going as a family with your and your dh outlining concerns with daughter and counselor as a start to the discussion. I would not only look for a Biblical counselor but one who has experience with people struggling with sex addictions.
Love,
em
"Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, he who does evil has not seen God." 3 John 1:11 |
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